Brooklyn,
NY - September
2002
WST:
This is
an exclusive
for Basement
Recordings.
The program
is called
When Steel
Talks and
we are pleased
to welcome
Mr. Robert
Greenidge
arranger
and seconds
player extraordinaire.
Very happy
to have
you Mr.
Greenidge.
RG:
Very
nice to
be here.
WST:
And When
Steel Talks
is very
much interested,
as are people
on the Website,
with arrangers
in general.
We will
be asking
you a few
questions
based on
your arranging
experience
and also
we will
focus on
you as a
solo performer
and your
professional
experience
world wide.
Once again,
welcome.
RG:
Thank
you, nice
to be here.
WST:
How
did you
get started
in pan?
RG:
I
got started
in pan through
my family,
my uncle.
He was a
fellow by
the name
of Carl
Greenidge
- deceased
now. I was
born in
Laventille.
We had a
band called
Savoys Steelband
in lower
Laventille.
We used
to live
just across
the street
from the
band. I
used to
hear the
music. I
used to
watch my
uncle and
them tune
the pans
and make
all the
different
things with
the sound.
I was probably
around the
age of six
or seven
when I went
to the panyard.
I tried
to stand
on a box
to play
the bass
and the
other pans
too because
the stands
were too
tall for
me. My uncle
and the
older folks
were interested
in showing
me around
the band.
I took the
initiative
to really
learn as
much as
I could
at the time.
I didn’t
know exactly
what I was
doing. Maybe,
around the
age of ten,
I realized
what I was
doing. I
tried to
learn as
much as
I could
within that
group. We
had people
like Martin
Albino and
Merle Albino-de
Couteau.
They used
to coach
us in the
music, teaching
us a lot
of musical
stuff using
a blackboard.
They taught
us chords
and different
things.
That’s how
we learned
until we
were ready
to play.
I stayed
with Savoys
for a long
period of
time getting
experienced
in the pan
thing. After
that, I
went with
another
group called
City Kids.
They were
also a family
band from
Belmont.
It was a
very small
band, but
a lot of
people came
out from
that band
that went
on to do
well also.
That band
was from
my father’s
side. So
I had music
on my mother’s
side through
my uncle,
and music
from my
father’s
side. So
those were
two bands
I was learning
a lot of
stuff with,
and then
eventually
I went with
Desperadoes
in 1965.
I was playing
around then
Rudolph
Charles
found us.
We had some
great sounding
pans from
a new guy
(pan tuner)
called Bassman.
When he
(Rudolph
Charles)
heard the
pans, he
asked us
if we could
come and
join Desperadoes
and if we
could bring
the pans
with us
- and we
did. That
was in 1965.
From there
I stayed
with Desperadoes
until at
least 1998.
It is a
long period
of time
in there.
After being
with Desperadoes
for a while,
they gave
me opportunities
to learn
to arrange
music. We
started
learning
under Clive
Bradley
and Beverly
Griffith.
Those were
the arrangers
for Desperadoes
at the time.
WST:
You looked
upon them
as your
mentors
at the time?
RG:
Yes,
I did, because
I was always
interested
in arranging.
How to do
it. I could
do it, but
I wasn’t
as great
as the professional
guys were.
As the time
went along,
they gave
us opportunities
to arrange
songs for
the band.
I started
doing little
pop songs
for the
band. They
were easy
songs until
I got more
experience.
I would
ask them
how I was
doing, and
they would
advise me
on what
to do and
what not
to do; how
to get the
correct
chord, how
to voice
things.
Mostly voicing
was the
main thing
I was interested
in.
WST:
What exactly
is voicing?
RG:
Voicing
is knowing
the ranges
of the instrument.
As an arranger
you have
to know
the pans.
If you have
a tenor
pan with
a low ‘C’
and you
have part
of a song
that has
a low ‘B’
or a low
‘A’ under
that, it
could be
difficult
because
the note
is not on
the drum
and you
will have
to transfer
it (the
part) to
another
instrument
which is
lower and
have that
note. You
might want
to make
a chord
like C major.
The voicing
is important
in that
you might
have the
bass play
‘C’, the
four pans
play C and
E, the seconds
play E and
G and if
you spread
it out to
the ninth,
the tenors
could play
G and D.
It is a
whole voice
on one chord.
WST:
So you will
regard Savoys,
City Kids
and Desperadoes
as your
training
ground?
RG:
Yes.
WST:
And your
musical
influences
and experiences
as Clive
Bradley
and Beverly
Griffith...
RG:
Yes, and
Martin Albino.
He was the
first one
that started
to teach
us to sound
voices,
so I cannot
forget.
Also, my
uncle, Carl
Greenidge.
WST:
What you
just did
was encapsulate
one of the
questions
that I would
later ask
- so you’ve
taken care
of that:
who your
musical
influences
were, and
who your
mentors
were.
RG:
Yes, that’s
exactly
who they
were. Also,
there was
another
guy I looked
up to as
a player.
He is a
tuner these
days. He
used to
play with
Invaders
many years
ago. He
is one of
the most
famous soloists.
He is Emmanuel
Riley whom
they called
“Cobo Jack”
-that is
his nickname
out here.
As a matter
of fact
he tuned
the background
pans for
Moods this
year[2002].
WST:
Mr. Emmanuel
Riley.
RG:
He is on
of the guys
we used
to listen
to a lot
because
we liked
his style
of soloing,
not as a
full band
ensemble.
WST:
Does
he still
play?
RG:
Well, he
plays.
WST:
When was
the last
time you
personally
heard him?
RG:
Well I heard
him play
bass not
too long
ago at the
Washington
Carnival.
He was one
of the -
still is
- I think
considered
one of the
best players.
He is just
one of those
quiet guys.
He took
up tuning
and a whole
other occupation
as a fireman.
Now he settles
back into
himself
and is tuning
a lot, but
still playing.
But I haven’t
heard him
play the
double seconds
or the tenor,
which I
know he
is very
good at.
I guess
these days
he is more
sticking
with the
tuning of
the drum
and trying
to get a
better tonal
quality
out of the
drums. He
has also
been tuning
a long time
too with
Ellie Mannette.
He came
out with
Invaders
and we had
a connection
between
Invaders
and Desperadoes.
The connection
was, we
used to
have the
same kind
of range
of pans.
Ellie and
Jack used
to come
up to Desperadoes.
Rudolph
used to
go down
to Invaders.
The tuners
used to
incorporate
things together.
He (Rudolph)
wanted to
get that
sound that
they had
down there.
He also
wanted to
get the
best tuners
that were
around.
He also
wanted the
best arrangers
to make
his band
what it
is today.
Through
having people
like Jack
and others
coming up
to the hill
to play
with us
we had good
experiences
by learning
a lot of
stuff from
them. They
took the
band to
greater
heights.
WST:
Would
you be working
with Desperadoes
again, you
think?
RG:
Maybe, sometime
in the year.
All I did
was really
take a break
from working
with them.
I did not
want to
get burnt
out after
so many
years. I
decided
to take
a break
from them.
And Clive
Bradley
is really
back with
the band,
which is
great. Before,
as I said,
he was really
the arranger
with the
band in
the earlier
days. Then
he took
a break
and we stepped
in as the
arrangers.
WST:
We
meaning?
RG:
Well -we-
meaning
we had a
group of
us as arrangers
that were
learning
to arrange
at the time.
There was
Denzil Botus
from Despers
(NY), Knolly
Nicholas
who passed
away, myself.
There are
a couple
of other
players
all around
that came
through
our hands
living up
here in
New York.
Some are
in the Despers
New York
steelband.
Some have
their own
bands now.
I just cannot
call everybody’s
name. A
lot of them
form their
own thing
and they
learn a
lot from
Clive, even
from Beverly,
because
we were
all in the
band together.
The real
people were
myself,
Denzil,
a fella
name Turbine,
Knolly Nicholas
- we called
him “Panther”
- and a
couple others
in the bands
started
to arrange
also. So
most of
the stuff
that we
learned
was in the
Laventille
Community
Center.
That’s where
we learned
to arrange.
They gave
us the opportunity
to do it.
We used
to listen
to the records
and try
to take
the music
off the
record player.
Most of
us at the
time couldn’t
read music
too well
- still
can’t. But
the reading
is good
when you
want to
learn something.
If you have
it and you
memorize
it, after
that you
should be
able to
play it.
You need
paper just
to read
and fine
tune your
parts.
WST:
You
arranged
for Solo
Knights
[in Trinidad]?
RG:
Solo Pan
Knights.
That came
about through
- well the
pan yard
for Solo
Pan Knights
was between
my house
and Desperadoes
yard. So
when I go
to Desperadoes,
I would
come back
and stop
by Solo.
Solo was
a young
band that
came out
of Solo
Harmonites
band. They
had a split
and the
sponsor
(Solo) went
with Pan
Knights.
They did
not stay
with Harmonites.
So the Harmonites
right now
I think
are sponsored
by White
Oak, Fernandes
or one of
those -
but the
sponsor
(Solo) went
with Pan
Knights
which is
Owen Serette
and his
band. They
formed this
band and
they needed
an arranger
and asked
if I could
do it? I
did say
yes because
in those
days you
could arrange
for two
or three
or four
bands if
one wanted.
Now it is
different.
They [panorama
organizers]
allow you
only one
band to
arrange
for.
WST:
In Trinidad?
RG:
Yes, which
is a little
ticklish.
Because
you cannot
tell a doctor
how many
patients
to operate
on, you
know. Or,
you cannot
tell a carpenter
how many
houses to
build. So
due to that
they got
Clive Bradley
back at
Desperadoes
and I stayed
with Pan
Knights
as the arranger
for the
past five
years.
WST:
What is
the difference
if any,
you found
in arranging
for Desperadoes
in contrast
to Pan Knights?
RG:
The difference
is the players.
Desperadoes
have a lot
of fine
players.
The things
we learned
from the
classics
we played,
helped to
improve
our skills.
We had Pat
Bishop teaching
us. Also,
a fella
by the name
of Raymond
Shaw; we
had Anthony
Prospect.
We had all
these teachers
and classical
pieces for
the stage
band. So
by learning
all that,
Desperadoes
is a band
that stuck
together.
The players
stayed with
each other
and after
a while
everybody
got to know
what to
do. From
an arranger’s
standpoint,
I knew what
I could
have given
them to
play. I
knew what
they could
take and
what they
cannot take.
When you
get to Pan
Knights’
panyard,
you see
there are
more kids
in the band.
Also, there
were not
too many
experienced
players.
Most of
the experienced
players
stayed with
Harmonites.
About five
or six experienced
players
came across
to Pan Knights
plus the
youths.
As I said,
on my way
home from
Desperadoes
panyard
I would
stop at
Pan Knights
panyard.
I used to
do it when
we were
doing panorama
tunes with
them. I
would go
in the day
do the music,
go home,
eat, come
back and
continue
the music
at night.
So what
I did is
split that
by going
to Desperadoes
in the day,
then go
to Pan Knights
in the afternoon,
go home
and eat,
come back
to Pan Knights
and then
back to
Desperadoes.
So I had
a kind of
rough one.
WST:
It is a
portfolio
in arranging.
RG:
So the thing
about the
kids in
Pan Knights
is, they
learned
fast. They
were not
as experienced
as the Desperadoes
players
were. I
got used
to the players
in Desperadoes.
I will know
how and
who to give
what kind
of [musical]
runs.
WST:
Basically
you know
them [Desperadoes]
intimately.
RG:
Yes! That’s
it. After
all these
years, we
traveled
all over.
We’ve been
to Africa;
we’ve been
to London-
everywhere.
Desperadoes
traveled,
we were
there. We
always stuck
as a family.
But back
to Pan Knights;
I was the
only arranger
that arranged
for that
band, because
they are
a brand
new band.
I think
it is either
1992 or
1994, somewhere
between
there they
got started.
And, ever
since I
have been
the arranger.
As I said
that’s when
you could
have done
arrangement
for two
or three
bands. Now
they have
a limit
of one band
and Clive
Bradley
is back
on the hill.
So while
he is on
the hill,
I would
still like
to do panorama
music so
I went ahead
and stayed
with Pan
Knights.
WST:
It is good
that you
mention
the restriction
there because
that is
a lead in
to my next
question
which is
- what are
the comparisons
you find
as an arranger
between
the Trinidad
panorama
and the
New York
panorama?
Obviously
one difference
off the
bat is that
currently
there is
not a restriction
as to how
many bands
you could
arrange
for in New
York. But
in Trinidad,
you say
that restriction
is in place
- one band.
So along
with that,
what are
your likes,
your dislikes,
what are
your observations
of the advantages
as opposed
to being
a New York
arranger
and a Trinidad
arranger?
RG:
Well, so
far as a
New York
arranger
I have seen
for example
Clive Bradley
has done
two bands
this year.
Nobody has
said anything
so far.
I have not
seen any
other arranger
do two bands
for the
season in
New York.
So we have
that space
we could
still play
around.
It’s not
that -
WST:
- stringent.
RG:
Yes, and
Trinidad
is real
tough. There
are a lot
of bands;
and a lot
of bands
need help
too. There
are a lot
of bands
that have
young arrangers
and they
need to
have professional
arrangers
guide them
like we
were once
[guided].
WST:
- guided
by Beverly
Griffith
and Clive
Bradley.
RG:
Beverly
Griffith
and Clive,
that’s how
we learned.
We are able
to arrange
our own
thing now
without
their help.
I think
that alone
is a plus
by itself.
Being able
to come
out and
do your
own thing.
I hope they
don’t try
to limit
it here
yet. There
are a lot
of bands
that need
professional
arrangers
to guide
them around.
Even though
they have
their arrangers,
I always
like to
advise them
to have
someone
there who
is capable
of doing
a song for
the band.
It doesn’t
have to
be a panorama
tune. Then
they could
make the
attempts
at panorama
material
because
it is a
ten-minute
piece. You
have to
take a three-minute
song - You
know what
you have
to do with
that. Put
seven minutes
of music
on to that.
It’s not
that easy.
We’ve been
doing it
for years,
so we kind
of learnt
the -
WST:
- ins and
outs.
RG:
Yes, the
ins and
outs and
the ways
to do it
and after
a while
you get
the road
map and
you take
it from
there and
put embellishments
on it.
WST:
Do you consider
as an arranger,
after so
many years,
that you
are still
growing
and if so
in what
direction?
RG:
Yes, I think
I am still
growing
musically.
Yes, I have
learned
a lot of
different
things even
still as
I go along
here. During
the arrangement
I might
learn a
different
voicing
maybe, sometimes
- we have
like newer
instruments
within the
band -like
the four
pans, quadrophonic
which we
didn’t have
in the earlier
days. Through
that we
hear how
to voice
that like
putting
that pan
in between
the seconds
to make
your band
sound totally
different.
Usually
it would
assist the
melody pans
playing
melody by
having a
lower register
melody being
played on
the pans.
That is
a voice
by itself
that really
makes a
big difference.
WST:
What do
you think
of the choice
of music
that is
available
for pan
arrangement,
tending
more to
soca and
calypso
pieces based
on what
comes out
for carnival
season in
Trinidad?
Do you see
that the
choices
are out
there? Or,
do you find
that the
pickings
could be
lean at
times.
RG:
Sometimes
it could
be. But
the choices
are out
there. What
also is
happening
is that
a lot of
arrangers
are doing
their own
material,
which helps.
WST:
You had
a piece
called “Sweet
Ramona,”
right?
RG:
Yes, I did
a piece
called Sweet
Ramona this
year, and
I also did
a piece
call The
Bomb. So
I had two
songs out
there in
the panorama.
One was
played by
Renegades
and the
other was
played by
Pan Knights.
WST:
Sweet Ramona
was played
up here
by Caribbean
Youth Panoramics.
RG:
Right, that
guy Caribbean
Youth Panoramics,
he was a
member of
Desperadoes
also.
WST:
Yes, Mr.
Franklyn
- Joseph
“Franklyn”
Gerald.
RG:
We all came
in the band.
We all played
in Desperadoes
around the
same time.
Now he is
an arranger.
So it is
the same
people that
we all hooked
up with.
I am pretty
sure that
he will
say the
same thing
about Beverly
Griffith
or Clive
Bradley,
because
it’s the
same people
we all learned
a lot of
stuff from.
So it’s
good to
know that
they all
around.
Even Denzil
Botus, he
has been
around for
so long.
We all came
in together
at the same
time. We
all wanted
to arrange
and do something
different.
So here
we are.
WST:
Just before
you went
on camera
you mentioned
there is
a lot more
you would
like to
have done
with your
present
arrangement
for Moods
Pan Groove,
who you
arranged
for the
2002 New
York panorama.
Were your
short-term
musical
goals met
by Moods?
Were you
pleased
with the
interpretation
of what
you gave
them in
the time
that you
had allocated?
RG:
Yes, I am
pleased.
I was very
pleased
with them
and I think
they did
a good performance.
I was not
there at
the performance
because
I had other
plans. But
I heard
that the
performance
was very
good. When
I left them
on Friday
night everybody
had everything
in place.
What they
had to do
was matter
of performing
it and make
it sound
like something.
I was talking
to you before
we went
on the air.
I was saying
that I wanted
to do more
with it.
Usually
we have
ten minutes
of music
to play
for the
panorama.
But by the
time you
finish the
song, it
is like
fourteen
or fifteen
minutes
to get the
whole rounded
song. I
really don’t
like the
limit of
ten minutes.
You should
have something
to say between
ten and
eleven minutes,
something
like that.
But don’t
just let
me give
you ten
minutes.
Sometimes
the way
the song
goes around,
the whole
arrangement
reach nine
minutes
and forty-five
seconds
and you
now in the
middle of
a phrase.
WST:
That’s interesting.
Because
there seems
to be a
consensus
from people
with well
trained
ears who
find that,
while there
are arrangers
- like you
- who might
be able
to manage
that and
do a very
credible
job on it,
there are
some arrangers
who may
have difficulty
getting
past four
and a half
minutes.
So - (laugh)
RG:
-(laugh)
well we
get used
to it being
in Trinidad
with panorama-
every year
it’s ten
minutes.
And I always
have a query
at home
with that
also. Even
when I do
Desperadoes
or Pan Knights,
some will
have to
be nine
and a half
minutes
or ten and
a half minutes.
It’s very
hard to
stop on
the ten-minute
mark.
WST:
So what
kind of
restrictions
the officials
-
RG:
- ten minutes
WST:
-that’s
in Trinidad.
Are there
official
restrictions
here [in
New York]
that you
know of?
RG:
This I don’t
know. But
I believe
it is ten
minutes.
Some guys
you say
will come
up with
six minutes
of music
and leave
it there
all the
time. I
know guys
that will
do that.
Other guys
will do
that and
they will
say the
night before
“we will
put on some
more music”
but by that
time everybody
has to learn
it and the
players
will need
time to
consume
the music
and put
it back
out. We
used to
do things
like finish
the song
the night
before the
show and
sometimes
it is a
little difficult
for the
players
themselves.
WST:
They need
the confidence.
They need
to be playing
by instinct
by the time
they hit
the stage
as oppose
to looking
for the
notes.
RG:
There is
a lot of
big bands
that get
their songs
done ahead
of time
like Exodus
and all
these bands.
So they
are always
rehearsing.
They enjoying
it.
They do
not have
to think
like “am
I going
to go to
this note
or this
one.” because
they already
rehearse
and have
everything
down pat.
WST:
That’s a
good point.
How long
before actual
performances
do you consider
is enough
time for
the bands
to know
the tune?
How many
days?
RG:
I would
say four
to five
days.
WST:
So they
should have
-
RG:
because
if you are
rehearsing
and your
panorama
is Saturday,
if you finish
the music
by Monday,
you have
Tuesday,
Wednesday,
Thursday,
Friday to
really get
the song.
Just run
it and smoothen
it out.
It is not
just the
music alone.
You might
have twenty
tenors playing
the same
thing at
the same
time. You
might find
one person
in there
that tends
to differ
a little
bit because
he did not
take his
time to
get it going
like a unit.
You need
a whole
knitted
thing where
everybody
could say
“I have
it, you
don’t have
to worry
about me.
You cover
my back,
I’ll cover
you, we
going.”
But some
bands kind
of..., I
understand
for this
panorama
one band
finished
their song
on the track...
I don’t
understand
-
WST:
- you mean
in the New
York panorama?
RG:
The New
York panorama.
That’s what
I heard.
I don’t
know how
true it
is. But
things like
that, you
have a period
of time
to have
these things.
You must
always remember
your players.
You could
have all
the music
in your
head. You
give it
to them
and when
you reach
there -
is like
I could
do it, but
they freeze.
WST:
They have
to interpret
and memorize
and synch.
RG:
I think
if you give
yourself
four to
five days,
you could
really have
a good performance.
In other
words the
arranger
really has
to finish
his music
a week before
time, which
is very
rare.
WST:
Do you manage?
RG:
Sometimes.
WST:
Did you
manage with
Moods
RG:
Moods? No
I didn’t
manage -
actually
I did about
three days
before.
WST:
[Still]
Pretty good
for you.
RG:
Why? Is
because
I did not
have enough
time to
do the music
with them.
I was travelling
in and out
[of NY]
WST:
You had
performances
-
RG:
I had performances
at Jones
Beach. I
had performances
in Chicago.
I had performances
in Boston.
All during
the period
of time
I was doing
the music
with Moods.
WST:
That’s a
good lead
in. Tell
me about
yourself.
You are
considered
one of the
world’s
best second
players.
What do
you consider
makes you
different
from other
second players?
What makes
you outstanding?
It may not
be your
interpretation.
But what
do you know?
What makes
you who
you are
- Robert
Greenidge?
RG:
Robert Greenidge
does not
play seconds
whole day.
Robert Greenidge
is an overall
pan player.
I play second
pan because
the second
pan is what
we call
a workhorse.
I do not
play any
other instruments.
From an
arranger
point of
view, you
need an
instrument
when doing
the music.
My second
pan is my
workhorse.
So I stuck
with it
for many
years. Every
now and
then I go
across to
the tenor
and play
and come
back to
the seconds.
Those are
the two
main pans
that I play.
As a lead
player you
have the
other people
playing
background
music on
the other
instruments.
The difference
with me
is that
I do a lot
of rehearsals.
I think
everybody
does rehearsals.
I try to
improve
whatever
I am doing
everyday.
WST:
So you practice
daily?
RG:
Oh yes,
I do practice
daily. Whatever
you see
here in
New York
is just
a small
section
of Robert.
I do a lot
of classical
pieces on
my own.
I have written
a lot of
pieces for
the pan
also. I
have about
five or
six CD’s
out with
pan and
conventional
instruments.
They are
not all
calypsos.
They are
a mixture
of light
jazz, CD
101 type
things -
it is just
a mixture.
I live in
Los Angeles.
I have been
living out
there for
a period
of time.
I met guys
and we formed
a group
together.
We go to
the studio
and record.
Put things
down together.
I also do
a lot of
stuff on
my own -
like workshops.
I just came
from an
Ellie Mannette
workshop
at Virginia
University.
Ellie has
a very good
program
there. There
is a lot
-
WST:
That’s good.
I want to
find out
because
of the audience
we have
- I am sure
they would
want to
find out
what is
the typical
month or
year like
for Robert
Greenidge
- the professional.
RG:
Well carnival
time is
for the
steelband.
WST:
There are
some arrangers
for whom
that the
only time
they work.
The rest
of the year
they basically
don’t work,
but that’s
not the
case with
Robert Greenidge.
RG:
No! No!
Robert Greenidge
works three
hundred
sixty-five
days a year.
He doesn’t
work everyday
but his
job is three
hundred
sixty-five
days a year.
I have spaced
myself out
in such
a way, that
I could
have my
own breaks
and do different
things.
The pan
is my livelihood.
That’s all
I do. I
have been
doing it
for a long
period of
time. I
have some
luck in
that I have
been able
to go out
-
WST:
You are
blessed
in being
able to
do something
that you
love.
RG:
By doing
something
that I love
very much.
Then I go
out also
and play
with other
conventional
instruments
and artists
- people
like Taj
Mahal the
blues singer.
I travel
a lot with
him. He
sings, I
play. I
travel with
Jimmy Buffet
a singer.
He has his
own following.
I work with
him during
the year.
I also do
concerts
different
places.
Next month
I will be
doing a
show in
Antigua.
I also do
a lot of
corporate
shows with
my group
from Los
Angeles.
Also, I
do a lot
of individual
performances
in concert.
I am sometimes
accompanied
by a drum
and a bass
player.
WST:
Do you find
that when
you’re out
there on
the world
stage there
is a good
reception
for the
various
genres of
music that
you play?
Do you find
that people
are taken
aback when
you play
something
other than
what is
traditionally
referred
to or looked
upon as
tourist
fare? -When
you show
that this
instrument
is a serious
instrument
- it is
just as
good as
anything
else and
perhaps
even better.
What kind
of reception
you get?
RG:
I get a
very good
reception
because
of like
you say
they have
it that
pan is a
tourist
thing. But
because
of the way
the instrument
is tuned
now, the
tuners are
making very
good instruments.
They are
lined up
in tune
with other
conventional
instruments,
whereas
in the past
this was
not always
the case.
The average
musician
would say
that we
playing
in ‘A’ major,
but the
pan is not
tuned in
‘A’. It
is not tuned
to ‘A’ 440,
which is
the basic
concept
of tuning
in ‘A’.
In the past
some people
would have
their pans
tuned in
‘B flat’
and some
in ‘D’ depending
on who is
doing the
tuning.
However
within the
last ten
to fifteen
years they
have maintained
the ‘A’
440 tuning
which puts
it right
in tune
with the
piano. So
when you’re
playing
with a pianist,
you could
mesh. The
pan is not
out of tune
compared
to the piano.
WST:
So when
you play
a classical
piece or
a jazz piece
- pop piece-
or rhythm
and blues,
the reception
as opposed
to -
RG:
Maryann
- is totally
different.
They see
it as an
instrument
when we
start to
play the
other things
instead
of the old
classical
calypso
pieces like
Harry Belafonte,
or Yellow
Bird. It’s
a totally
different
avenue here.
As the instrument
is being
tuned correctly
with other
instrument,
you get
a chance
to really
play with
great musicians
and learn
things from
them also.
They in
turn can
learn from
you too.
My approach
to it is
this; I
am very
serious
with what
I do with
the pan.
When I get
into it
I practice
a lot. I
try to learn
all I could
learn. So
when I get
to do a
performance,
I can play
by myself
and put
on a good
show.
WST:
I looked
at you working
with Moods
and I had
the advantage
of seeing
you at different
places while
you were
giving out
the music
-
RG:
Well you
have to
be - you
know you
are trying
to teach
the group
what’s going
on. You
trying to
make sure
the music
is being
played and
if you don’t
have all
experienced
musicians
to work
with, it
gets hard.
Then you
have to
make your
adjustments
to suit.
What I did
with Moods
is try to
teach all
of them
the parts,
make sure
they have
it. Then
I would
go and play
also to
show them
the approach
to it. Sometime
I watched
some of
the guys
(players)
and when
they see
my approach
to it, they
say “oh!
That’s what
we have
to do.”
Like I wouldn’t
cross my
hands this
way, I would
play this
way [showing
the difference
in motion]
so it becomes
clearer
to them.
WST:
You spoke
about teaching
the players
- there
are some
people in
the pan
world, a
school of
thought
that says
if the pan
players
don’t learn
to read
and write
music like
professional
“musicians”
they are
at a great
disadvantage.
Not only
that, some
of them
go as far
as to say
if pan players
don’t actually
learn this
way, then
they are
not serious
musicians.
What is
your take
on that?
Do you think
that someone
who is naturally
brilliant
by instinct
and cannot
read music
- do you
think they
play any
less? Is
there a
drop in
level? Or
do you think
they should
be dissed
like that
because
they cannot
read music?
RG:
It depends
on who they
are - the
individuals
themselves.
Like me,
I am not
a great
reader but
I can play.
I have learned
a lot by
listening,
by watching
and getting
advice from
other people.
I would
advise all
pan people
to learn
to read
for their
own advancement.
WST:
So they
can probably
fall in
more on
the world
stage.
RG:
Because
what we
are doing
now is learning
by rote.
We go into
the yard
and we teach
one section,
then the
next. That’s
all good,
but it is
a time consuming
thing. Whereas
if you have
the music
written
out and
the players
can read
in two or
three days
you can
show them
the whole
arrangement.
Other than
that it
will take
you two
or three
weeks, sometimes
more just
to get the
music. Some
arrangers
for pan
do not have
the music
written
out. They
have it
in their
mind. They
might have
one section
and not
the next.
Most of
the time
I try to
get all
the sections
before I
start to
work. I
will put
it on tape
and if I
don’t like
it I can
always change
things before
I take it
to the band.
Sometime
I take it
to the band
then change
it. But
I will advise
players
to learn
to read.
There are
a lot of
good pan
players
out there
now going
to different
universities
giving giving
degrees
in music
with the
pan as a
percussion
instrument.
People like
Andy Narell
went to
college
and came
back out
reading.
They were
a lot of
percussion
players
and they
took the
pan with
them and
that’s what
takes them
out there.
WST:
What do
you think
of the young
and upcoming
pan players
like Liam
Teague?
RG:
I think
Liam Teague
is doing
well. You
must remember
Liam plays
another
instrument
- the violin.
Right now
he teaches
at the Illinois
University.
This is
the advantage
that he
has.
WST:
So you consider
pan being
in good
hands at
the moment.
RG:
It is getting
better.
WST:
Getting
better?
Beside Liam
Teague are
there other
young people
you can
-
RG:
Call? There
are a lot
of white
guys learning
to do this
thing inside
out. I have
seen them
perform.
I have seen
them do
the arrangements.
They are
watching
what we
are doing
and they
are going
ahead and
doing their
thing because
they can
read.
WST:
Do they
approach
it as a
vocation?
RG:
I think
that is
changing.
Being in
the universities
out there
you see
where they
are coming
from. For
some of
them of
course it
is a vocation.
Others are
very serious.
They take
it up and
go on to
college
and get
their degrees.
Then they
come back
and form
their own
groups and
teach in
colleges
all over.
WST:
You said
some of
the people,
do you know
them off
hand?
RG:
Couple of
people,
Liam Teague,
Andy Narell,
Jeff Narell,
Tom Miller
- there
are a couple
of them
out there.
WST:
Really good
at what
they do?
RG:
Yes and
they just
picked it
up as a
percussion
instrument
and are
very bright.
The fact
that they
learned
to read-
you can
just bring
music and
put it in
front of
them and
they will
play it.
WST:
It is a
serious
thing.
RG:
It is a
serious
thing with
other people
and I am
not talking
about the
vocation
players.
Most of
them are
really serious
about this.
The reason
why I can
say this
is because
I go to
the colleges
and see
what it
is they
do and all
the bands
that are
in the colleges.
I go to
different
colleges
and perform
every year.
WST:
Okay. So
you’ve heard
what the
bands sound
like those
at the colleges.
How do they
sound in
comparison
to Trinidad
bands?
RG:
They sound
very good.
Of course
Trinidad
has a feel...
WST:
So these
people are
technically
correct?
RG:
Yes technically
correct.
They have
professors
of music
teaching
them.
WST:
They reproduce
very well.
RG:
Yes and
they invite
people like
us to come
to the different
colleges
to do workshops
and performances
then they
take it
from there.
WST:
It’s validation.
RG:
So somebody
is going
to go out
and spread
the word
and we are
taking that
initiative
by doing
that also.
WST:
Don’t you
think that
it is long
overdue
that the
Trinidad
and Tobago
Government
and the
University
of the West
Indies should
have taken
this on
a long time
ago?
RG:
Yes I think
they should.
WST:
Are there
any rumblings
in that
area. Based
on your
experiences
outside,
is there
anyone at
all-
RG:
Well the
only thing
that I know
now in Trinidad
is: there
is a Trinidad
National
Steelband
Orchestra
where they
take the
younger
members
from different
bands and
they teach
the kids
to read
and write
music. I
was in one
of the National
steelbands
in the earlier
days. What
they used
to do was
choose the
best players
then. Now
is whom
you send.
To be in
the National
Steelband
is like
being on
an all star
cast. It
is like
a football
team. You
have the
best from
all the
islands
or something
like that.
What they
did in those
years, we
had the
same guy
again Cobo
Jack, all
of us were
in the band.
You had
to send
your best
players.
Otherwise
you’re wasting
time.
WST:
Right now
on the University
of the West
Indies St.
Augustine
campus,
there is
no program
like that?
RG:
Well, I’ve
heard they
are starting
something.
I have not
been around.
I am not
really informed
much. I
hope they
do something
because
like I say
it is moving
out there
and we are
just looking
at the States.
We did not
even touch
Europe yet.
Europe has
more bands
than here.
WST:
On the Internet
there is
quite a
lot of bands.
RG:
Switzerland
has a lot
of bands.
Paris has
a lot of
bands. Sweden
has a lot
of bands
and they
are serious.
They all
go to the
music festival
in Trinidad.
Most of
them that
qualified.
That’s a
step in
the right
direction.
WST:
Let me get
personal.
Who taught
Robbie Greenidge
right from
wrong?
RG:
Who did?
Wow!
WST:
You know,
going back
to when
you were
younger.
Who did
you look
up to as
your icon?
Not musical
mentor but
just your
role model.
RG:
All my people
[role models]
were into
music. I
used to
look up
to people
like the
great guitarist
George Benson
or somebody
like Stan
Getz or
some others
that played
music. These
are the
people I
really like
to listen
to, to watch
- or somebody,
for me to
say “hey
I really
would -
like to
be like
this guy.”
It’s kind
of hard
to say because
there is
so many
people out
there that
I wish I
could be
like. There
are so many
people out
there that
have that
touch. I
just take
advice from
me and try
to take
it ahead.
If I have
to refer
back to
anybody
then I’ll
find someone.
WST:
Who manufactures
and tunes
your pans?
RG:
Bertie Marshall
tunes my
pans. As
a matter
of fact
he is one
of the first
guys in
the Savoys
steelband
also. So
these are
guys who
are like
family.
We all come
from Laventille
together.
He is the
one that
tunes my
drums and
takes care
of them.
WST:
You’ve had
the opportunity
to hear
recordings
of panoramas
from Trinidad
for a number
of years.
You’ve heard
one from
New York’s
panorama
- actually
what you
just heard
was a bit
of the DVD.
You heard
the recording
quality
and I believe
you have
a copy of
the recording
of Moods
this year
-
RG:
Yes I do
and that
was great
-
WST:
What are
your thoughts
- if any
- of the
recordings
you’ve heard
in Trinidad
and the
one that
you have
from your
2002 production
of Moods
and what
you’ve just
seen on
the DVD
from the
Basement
studio.
RG:
I think
Basement
is doing
well with
their approach
to it. The
way they
are recording
it. As a
matter of
fact sometime
in 1994
we did [called]
“No Wuk
Fuh Carnival”
and I find
that to
be a great
recording.
WST:
‘94?
That was
seven years
ago!
RG:
Yes. That’s
how long
Basement
been happening
and I find
that this
year’s recording
was great.
I know they
probably
have more
advanced
equipment
now. But
at the time
what they
had was
probably
more advanced
too! Anyway
the quality
of recording
is great
from what
I’ve gathered,
seen and
heard. They
have a couple
of guys
in Los Angeles;
and Sanch
Electronics
[in Trinidad]
and also
somebody
else trying
to record.
But I just
think he
has a little
way to go
before he
gets to
the kind
of sound
that would
interest
me to say
well “yes,
that is
it.” The
sound in
Trinidad
this year
was okay.
But there
was something
I did not
like because
they were
rushing.
They just
put five
microphones
in front
the band
and I don’t
think they
got the
full load
of the stuff
because
they just
pick up
the frontline
or the pans
in the first
two rows
or something.
The rhythm
section
is all the
way in the
back. You’re
hearing
it but it
is not as
fine as
it should
be in a
live recording.
WST:
You’ve had
an opportunity
to observe
some of
the techniques
here?
RG:
Sure, I
did. When
we recorded
Moods I
was not
aware. I
should have
recognized
that we
were recording
and set
the band
up in a
different
way by putting
all the
tenors in
one section,
the guitars
in one section
and also
the bass,
and then
you could
get the
full sound
around there.
I noticed
the set
up but I
did not
say anything
much. We
had two
quadrophonics,
but they
put one
microphone
between
one quadraphonic
[because
of the band
set up].
It is a
little too
close there.
When they
pick up
the bass
mic there
was a conga
player right
there. You
hear a lot
of him.
You know
I am just
observing
the CD and
the recording.
It just
slipped
me not to
put the
band in
a recording
format.
That I would
really have
enjoyed,
because
then you
would get
the full
body of
the band.
Everybody
would be
on their
own separate
little thing
[track]
and you
would hear
the full
body of
the band.
But overall
it was very
good. I
played the
CD for a
lot of people
and they
like what
they were
hearing.
They say
“where you
guys recorded?”
I say, “we
recorded
right in
the panyard.”
They say,
“that’s
real nice”
and I guess
we were
kind of
endorsed
too.
All in all
I think
you guys
are doing
a wonderful
job in recording
the bands.
It is the
only company
[Basement
Recordings]
I see in
New York
doing something
for pan.
I hope that
you guys
continue
doing what
you doing
and get
the pan
players
to come
in and understand
what you
are doing.
I don’t
know, maybe
you might
have to
take their
hands and
bring them
in and say
this is
for pan.
There are
not too
many people
round here
doing it.
So make
use of it.
A company
like you
guys I will
support
anytime.
WST:
You got
a glimpse
- not very
much but
a few minutes
of the DVD?
RG:
It’s great.
I would
like to
check it
out some
other time
again. But
the little
glimpse
I got, it’s
very nice
and clean.
WST:
There is
actually
no recording
of pan on
DVD to the
best of
my knowledge.
I know there
is a lot
of VHS tape.
Have you
seen any
DVD’s?
RG:
No. I really
have not
seen any
yet. I think
what you
are doing
is a wonderful
job. Don’t
stop. Continue
doing what
you’re doing.
There is
next year
to come
again for
panorama.
WST:
You would
like to
record again,
whichever
band you’re
arranging
for?
RG:
Sure. I
would love
to. It’s
always good
to have
that history
back there.
A lot of
music is
being lost
after panorama
and you
need something
like this.
WST:
But it is
being recorded...
RG:
It is being
recorded
yes. But
some bands
are not
recorded.
They did
the piece,
they work
so hard...
a week or
two before
panorama
- leaving
their regular
job - whatever
they do
- staying
up late
at night,
and after
panorama
that’s the
end of you.
So they
need something
like this
to keep
them rolling
to say “this
is what
we have.
This is
what we’re
doing.”
Come together,
find whatever
form of
sponsorship
to get this
thing rolling.
Put the
CD out there.
Put the
DVD out
there. Get
this thing
rolling.
As I say,
you are
the only
guys I see
doing this
thing around
here in
the New
York area.
Not too
many areas
out there
anyway.
They have
them out
in Washington,
California,
but the
little bit
that I see
here I am
very much
interested.
It is very
interesting
to see what’s
happening.
WST:
What we
need is
pan people
to come
together
and this
will be
good, so
we can document
it -
RG:
Are you
guys going
to make
any CDs
this year?
Make a CD
of the bands
and put
t out there.
WST:
I know that
there is
suppose
to be a
pan CD of
the 2002
panorama
selections
from the
bands that
recorded
prior to
panorama
this year.
But it would
be their
panorama
selections.
That’s in
the works.
RG:
That would
be important
because
you don’t
want it
to ‘lose’
or slip
away like
earlier
years. If
somebody
come back
and ask
“what this
band play
in [the
year] nineteen
so and so.”
[someone
replies]
“It was
good, you
know”
“but you
have a copy?”
“No, I have
a l’il [little]
cassette
tape ah
make on
meh lil
cassette.”
Come on!!
So they
need to
be heard
out there.
They want
it. They
need it
very much.
And people
need to
hear what
is going
on here.
Not just
in this
country
but other
countries
like Japan
and all
these other
places.
I just got
a CD we
did for
carnival
in Trinidad.
The Japanese
did it.
And they
did like
three or
four other
different
bands. They
did Desperadoes,
Exodus and
Phase II.
They did
some solo
guys like
Boogsie
Professor,
Earl Brooks,
and myself.
And they
have a CD
out right
now.
WST:
How is it?
RG:
It sounds
pretty good.
They brought
their own
equipment
like how
you guys
walk around
with your
stuff. They
went around
to the yards.
Tell them
exactly
what is
going on,
set the
thing in
motion and
the CD is
out now.
They have
a good team
with them
- some lawyers
and attorneys.
So the business
is good.
It was very
good. I
enjoyed
doing it
and they
took care
of you very
well also.
The business
is all right.
I was very
happy.
WST:
Mr. Robert
Greenidge:
very, very
good having
you on When
Steel Talks.
It was a
pleasure
speaking
with you.
Getting
insights
into you
as a person,
your experiences
professionally,
your mentors
and also
your viewpoints
and your
hopes and
aspirations.
Wish you
all the
best professionally-
RG:
Thank you.
WST:
And may
you continue
to play
pan and
be a light
in the pan
world out
there and
just follow
RG:
Just trying
to be a
vehicle
out there
WST:
Very good
having you
on When
Steel Talks.
RG:
Thank you.
All right.
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Robert Greenidge
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Robert Greenidge:
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